To get things started, we are going to re-post Jen's initial article, some responses and then Jen's responses. Feel free to talk freely here about how you feel on the issues. Brace yourself, this is a LONG initial post!
A Part of History
Last Tuesday, Election Day had finally arrived. I and I think many others were relieved this campaign was almost over. I did my duty as an American citizen and cast my vote. I proudly donned my "I voted" sticker all day. After dinner it came time to watch and wait. We eagerly and nervously flipped through the channels listening to all of the projections. As the last election taught us things can change so I wasn't hedging any bets until it was final. Eventually, Dan and I played a little Xbox to alleviate the nerves. We would switch back to the tv every so often. And the night dragged on. Finally at 11:10 p.m. my father sent me a text message that read, "President Obama. I can't speak." We quickly switched back to television and it was true and it was certain. In that instant as I continually swallowed the lump rising in my throat and watched through watery eyes, I began to ingest the gravity and magnitude of what had just occurred and it left me awestruck and unexpectedly full of overwhelming emotion.
Before I go on, I would like to back track for a moment. Don't worry this is not going to be a political tirade. I am not going to rant and rave for or against Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, or Conservatives. Let me just start by getting the politics out of the way because many of those who read my blog know that I voted for Barack Obama. I weighed my values, morals, religious beliefs, concerns, and priorities very carefully and thoughtfully. I took issue with both candidates on several of their platforms. Neither was a "perfect" choice if that even exists. But I had to align myself with the one who most fit in with those things I value. Again that is not to say I agreed with all of Obama's positions. But the few platforms I did disagree with (and there were a few strong oppositions), I still saw no better solution offered on the other side of the isle. I had my reasons for voting the way I did, but I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who feels differently about who they voted for and why. I may not agree but that is what is beautiful about this country. We have that freedom thank God. And we can disagree on things and still work together to make the world better for ourselves, those around us, and all future generations.
So having said that I want to put politics aside for a moment to just sit here, take in, and process the history that was made on November 4, 2008 and how it's implications have been permeating through my heart all week. You see whether or not you voted for Obama, and it doesn't really matter if you did or not. It is so important to me to acknowledge something so remarkable occurred that night beyond politics and party lines. I voted for him because of the man I believe him to be and that he for me is the best candidate suited for the job. His race did not escape me nor did the significance of a black man, and two women running for President or Vice President all in the same election year. However, that did not at all play into why I voted for him. And I guess until he was elected that meaning did not truly sink in. Until that moment when I realized Barack Obama, a black man, was in fact our next President and his wife, a black woman, was our next First Lady, and his family, a black family, would be living in the White House I just didn't truly understand that I, that we all, carry with us the weight of our nation's history in our hearts. It's not that I never contemplated such ideas before but let's just say I never felt the true significance until that moment. I wasn't sure at the time exactly where all of the emotion was coming from other than the obvious implications of the event. But I have had all week to reflect on it.
Since the election 5 days ago, I have felt the knot in my throat creep up on many occasions when watching discussions about the new President-elect, watching clips of his speech that night or just in times of reflecting on it or talking with Dan about it. I have been so emotional about it all week and I have done quite a bit of thinking on the subject which is why I felt the need to purge my thoughts and feelings here in my blog as I so often do in other areas. Here's what I've come up with:
I am nearly 33 years old and a lot of defining historical moments have occurred in my lifetime, some in a time when I was too young to grasp their meaning and others in a time I was too self-absorbed to grasp their meaning. As I have gotten older and less self-absorbed :) I have begun to pay attention more and I have simply learned more with time and experience. Parenthood plays a big part in that awareness. I am now very deeply aware of the state we as a world are in. For me as an informed, invested adult the most impressionable historic events so far have been 911 and the Iraq War. Neither of those bring up feelings of hope and positive progress for me.
The era my parents grew up in seemed so tumultuous and yet full of progress at the same time. I hate that segregation and oppression of any people occurred and yet what an significant time to be alive to not only witness the changing of the tides but to be a person who affected change. I can't imagine being alive during the civil rights movement and women's liberation or to hear people like Martin Luther King, Jr., John F. Kennedy, and Robert Kennedy speak out for change and progress in areas of equality. My parents witnessed the landscape change so much through the course of their formative years some ways in the form of progress and some ways that set us back as a nation and a species for that matter. I suppose it is the impression those times and events made on them that helped shape the people they would become and ultimately the values they would cherish and pass on to their children. For we are partly who were were born to be, partly who the world around us molds us into and partly who we choose to be.
So for me in that moment on November 4th, I watched the crowds of people crying and although people of all colors and genders were crying it was the faces of the black men and women, young and old I remember the most. I became so acutely aware (as much as I can from the shoes I stand in) what a momentous day this was for them and I felt a special pride and vindication for black people not just here in the US but all over the world. However, it was also truly an important day for all Americans. It hit me that every parent could now really tell their child, "Yes you can". Every parent can tell their son or daughter whether black, white, Native American, Hispanic, etc., that no dream is too big and if you work hard you really can do anything you put your mind to.
I am a piece of the fabric of our society and a citizen of this great nation. As an American I am as proud of our accomplishments and strides forward as I am ashamed of the unjust mistakes we have made. In that moment on November 4th I felt that more than ever. I was not only witnessing history, I was a part of that history. I was a part of what could be the most important election in my lifetime and just as my parents remember the tragedy of the day Kennedy was shot and were forever changed by it as was our nation, I will remember and tell Jaden about the triumph of the 2008 election for all Americans but especially those who have been held down.
The masses have spoken in overwhelming majority in favor of Obama which leads me to believe another true shift has occurred. Obama didn't create the shift, we as a people did. But he was the right person in the right place and time for that shift to take place and my hope is that a racial barrier has truly come down and will stay down and that we will only continue as a nation to make progress in the area of equality. I pray for our new President. He faces many challenges before him and has quite a mess to clean up. I hope he can make good on his promises and continue to move this country in the right direction. We want that change and we are ready for that change and I hope with each other's help- we the people and all elected officials- we can keep this fire going that has been ignited through this election season and we will always continue the journey our forefathers began when they wrote these words:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Before I go on, I would like to back track for a moment. Don't worry this is not going to be a political tirade. I am not going to rant and rave for or against Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, or Conservatives. Let me just start by getting the politics out of the way because many of those who read my blog know that I voted for Barack Obama. I weighed my values, morals, religious beliefs, concerns, and priorities very carefully and thoughtfully. I took issue with both candidates on several of their platforms. Neither was a "perfect" choice if that even exists. But I had to align myself with the one who most fit in with those things I value. Again that is not to say I agreed with all of Obama's positions. But the few platforms I did disagree with (and there were a few strong oppositions), I still saw no better solution offered on the other side of the isle. I had my reasons for voting the way I did, but I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who feels differently about who they voted for and why. I may not agree but that is what is beautiful about this country. We have that freedom thank God. And we can disagree on things and still work together to make the world better for ourselves, those around us, and all future generations.
So having said that I want to put politics aside for a moment to just sit here, take in, and process the history that was made on November 4, 2008 and how it's implications have been permeating through my heart all week. You see whether or not you voted for Obama, and it doesn't really matter if you did or not. It is so important to me to acknowledge something so remarkable occurred that night beyond politics and party lines. I voted for him because of the man I believe him to be and that he for me is the best candidate suited for the job. His race did not escape me nor did the significance of a black man, and two women running for President or Vice President all in the same election year. However, that did not at all play into why I voted for him. And I guess until he was elected that meaning did not truly sink in. Until that moment when I realized Barack Obama, a black man, was in fact our next President and his wife, a black woman, was our next First Lady, and his family, a black family, would be living in the White House I just didn't truly understand that I, that we all, carry with us the weight of our nation's history in our hearts. It's not that I never contemplated such ideas before but let's just say I never felt the true significance until that moment. I wasn't sure at the time exactly where all of the emotion was coming from other than the obvious implications of the event. But I have had all week to reflect on it.
Since the election 5 days ago, I have felt the knot in my throat creep up on many occasions when watching discussions about the new President-elect, watching clips of his speech that night or just in times of reflecting on it or talking with Dan about it. I have been so emotional about it all week and I have done quite a bit of thinking on the subject which is why I felt the need to purge my thoughts and feelings here in my blog as I so often do in other areas. Here's what I've come up with:
I am nearly 33 years old and a lot of defining historical moments have occurred in my lifetime, some in a time when I was too young to grasp their meaning and others in a time I was too self-absorbed to grasp their meaning. As I have gotten older and less self-absorbed :) I have begun to pay attention more and I have simply learned more with time and experience. Parenthood plays a big part in that awareness. I am now very deeply aware of the state we as a world are in. For me as an informed, invested adult the most impressionable historic events so far have been 911 and the Iraq War. Neither of those bring up feelings of hope and positive progress for me.
The era my parents grew up in seemed so tumultuous and yet full of progress at the same time. I hate that segregation and oppression of any people occurred and yet what an significant time to be alive to not only witness the changing of the tides but to be a person who affected change. I can't imagine being alive during the civil rights movement and women's liberation or to hear people like Martin Luther King, Jr., John F. Kennedy, and Robert Kennedy speak out for change and progress in areas of equality. My parents witnessed the landscape change so much through the course of their formative years some ways in the form of progress and some ways that set us back as a nation and a species for that matter. I suppose it is the impression those times and events made on them that helped shape the people they would become and ultimately the values they would cherish and pass on to their children. For we are partly who were were born to be, partly who the world around us molds us into and partly who we choose to be.
So for me in that moment on November 4th, I watched the crowds of people crying and although people of all colors and genders were crying it was the faces of the black men and women, young and old I remember the most. I became so acutely aware (as much as I can from the shoes I stand in) what a momentous day this was for them and I felt a special pride and vindication for black people not just here in the US but all over the world. However, it was also truly an important day for all Americans. It hit me that every parent could now really tell their child, "Yes you can". Every parent can tell their son or daughter whether black, white, Native American, Hispanic, etc., that no dream is too big and if you work hard you really can do anything you put your mind to.
I am a piece of the fabric of our society and a citizen of this great nation. As an American I am as proud of our accomplishments and strides forward as I am ashamed of the unjust mistakes we have made. In that moment on November 4th I felt that more than ever. I was not only witnessing history, I was a part of that history. I was a part of what could be the most important election in my lifetime and just as my parents remember the tragedy of the day Kennedy was shot and were forever changed by it as was our nation, I will remember and tell Jaden about the triumph of the 2008 election for all Americans but especially those who have been held down.
The masses have spoken in overwhelming majority in favor of Obama which leads me to believe another true shift has occurred. Obama didn't create the shift, we as a people did. But he was the right person in the right place and time for that shift to take place and my hope is that a racial barrier has truly come down and will stay down and that we will only continue as a nation to make progress in the area of equality. I pray for our new President. He faces many challenges before him and has quite a mess to clean up. I hope he can make good on his promises and continue to move this country in the right direction. We want that change and we are ready for that change and I hope with each other's help- we the people and all elected officials- we can keep this fire going that has been ignited through this election season and we will always continue the journey our forefathers began when they wrote these words:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Steve's Response:
Hey guys ...
Very well articulated Jen, and so you know, I can completely respect your points of view.
But you know very well that I can't let your opinion on this increasingly public venue go unchallenged.
I think America made a huge mistake in electing Obama.
I am being honest in saying I too would've voted for him, on the issue of race alone, just for the sake of the justice it would serve, if it weren't for the fact that I don't trust Obama's judgment.
We, the American citizens, have an incredibly hard-fought-for right to vote freely according to our conscience. We elect a chief executive based on his/her actual voting record and they earn our trust through their past actions (not just their mesmerizing words).
Yes, it appears as if we're making a huge stride forward as a nation in overcoming unspeakable injustices against blacks in our not-so-distant past. But any man--I don't care if they're black, white, yellow or brown--who has the extremely liberal voting record that Mr Obama has does not get my vote.
Any man who votes for a bill that allows doctors to kill a baby, born alive after a botched abortion, in the secrecy of an abortion clinic somewhere in his home state of Illinois does not, in my opinion, deserve my vote nor, I believe, will he lead this country to a place that God will ever be compelled to show His mercy and bless us again.
I know these are strong words, but realize, your words in favor of him are just as strong. :I
People are upset with abortion being a litmus test, but I believe it trumps every other "expanded agendas" of the evangelical movement. Global warming, alternative energies and Americans' privacies being sacrificed for security all do not hold a candle to extinguishing the life of a helpless baby.
"Progressive evangelicals" talk about "abortion reduction." Great! Let's do that. But why oppose outlawing partial birth abortion, a barbaric practice in which a viable human baby is partially delivered, its skull cracked, and its brains sucked out with a vacuum.
I would not be offended at all if you decide to delete this post. Just had to get this off my chest :I
Steve
Ed's Response (to Steve)
Initially, I thought I might have to bloviate for days after reading Steve’s post on the Family blog regarding Obama and abortion. I then decided to read it several more times to make sure what I read was what I actually read. It was! Brevity not being my strong suit I offer the following remarks:
Steve said in closing:
"Progressive evangelicals" talk about "abortion reduction." Great! Let's do that. But why oppose outlawing partial birth abortion, a barbaric practice in which a viable human baby is partially delivered, its skull cracked, and its brains sucked out with a vacuum.”
So I offer this:
The entire article, including the second to last paragraph I referenced above, attempts desperately to mimic substance, fact and anything in-between. I would call on the author to adhere to reality and facts when positing such an impassioned diatribe; unless in doing so, it would restrict the author's ability to eek out a mere sentence or two. I can’t argue the merits of the diatribe because they do not exist outside the confines of a woefully uninformed mind.
It is the overall magnitude of ignorance and arrogance that has truly startled me, but it is the cheap, ugly, manipulative talking point of that second to last paragraph that riled me and that last sentence below just put me over the edge.
“I would not be offended at all if you decide to delete this post. Just had to get this off my chest :I Steve"
Let’s see; family blog…out of nowhere comes a self-righteous, imbecilic, manipulative, offensive and insulting rant; and the author assures the reader he would not be offended if the post were deleted. Well I’m just a family member so I can’t and won’t delete the post. Besides, I like ignorance out in the open for all to see. Even if it were my blog, I wouldn’t delete it but I’d sure as hell be looking to kick some ass first chance and I’m hoping that does offend you.
I would suggest you watch where your walking as you bear false witness against your fellow Christians. And as long as you choose the medium of earthly communication to do so, try doing some earthly homework. It works well alongside earthly truth.
Ed
Jen's Response (to Steve)
Ok, regarding the Illinois bill. I can assume you are speaking of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act that Obama voted against? Obama clearly said he voted against it b/c A. Illinois already had a law protecting born-alive children and their care so it was redundant, B. Doctors are already obligated by the Hippocratic oath to care for a child after it is born so again redundant, and C. because he believed it to be a ploy by the Republicans to pigeon hole Democrats and pass other agendas hidden within the bill. He clearly stated if he was a US Senator when the FEDERAL bill was passed by both parties he would have gladly supported it AND if the Illinois bill had the same wording as the Federal bill he would have supported it.
He also said the following of partial-birth abortion:
Ok for state to restrict late-term partial birth abortion
On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that.Part of the reason they didn't have it was purposeful, because those who are opposed to abortion have a moral calling to try to oppose what they think is immoral. Oftentimes what they were trying to do was to polarize the debate and make it more difficult for people, so that they could try to bring an end to abortions overall.
As president, my goal is to bring people together, to listen to them, and I don't think that's any Republican out there who I've worked with who would say that I don't listen to them, I don't respect their ideas, I don't understand their perspective. And my goal is to get us out of this polarizing debate where we're always trying to score cheap political points and actually get things done.
Look we can argue all day about the facts. You believe Obama is a liar and there is no way to convince you otherwise. You have your mind made up about him. I happen to feel the same way about McCain and that he is unstable. So we are at a deadlock. But I recognize when a party is using a platform to exploit its base and win their favor. I also recognize bills that pose as one thing but are filled with hidden agendas. Then when they are voted against they can use that to pigeon hole those in opposition. It happens on both sides I know.
I just want to be clear. I do not support all of Obama's ideas and platforms particularly on this topic. But I am for getting the facts straight at least. And I am vehemently opposed to abortion. I just happen to see a different solution than McCain and many other Christians and I'm not chalking it up to just "reducing abortions". I have a lot of ideas about how to help the problem. I am not on THE OTHER SIDE of this issue from you or any Christian who values life. But I am on the other side on how to solve it. Look I am not trying to jump on you about this and I am happy to have discussions about this. But look I take offense to anyone assuming or suggesting I somehow am on the wrong side, the evil side of this dilemma. I take offense to the idea that perhaps I don't value the lives of unborn children as other Christians do. I have had 4 pregnancies in 4 years. I know what an unborn child's life is worth. I have lost 2 children to miscarriage and have always considered them my babies. I realize partial-birth abortions happen to babies that are the same age Ethan was and he was very much our child- our son. I was devastated by all three losses and will never be the same as a result. I considered those babies mine from the moment I read the pregnancy test. So I have very strong feelings about life and how sacred and precious it is. I know you are NOT AT ALL questioning that in particular but I had to say it to make it clear.
But unfortunately there is a bigger picture here. Sometimes we're so excited to win one fight we fail to realize it is at the expense of another and that is what has happened these last 8 years. Bush has been THE pro-life president and that will be his one worthwhile legacy and I don't minimize it's significance. However Christians have been so blinded by the light the past 2 terms and it's not God's light in my opinion, it's turned out to be a giant flood light used to deter them from other serious issues at hand. As long as the guy says he's pro-life we don't care what else happens, what else he supports, or what kind of character he has. I've spoken to many Christians who are completely unaware of any other issues here or abroad but put all their focus into this one issue. (Not saying that's you but you have been known to share a soundbite here and there without the full story intact). McCain is not Bush but has been with him on 95% of the issues. He's from the same cloth and as a nation, as a people, we cannot continue on in this direction.
You said, "People are upset with abortion being a litmus test, but I believe it trumps every other "expanded agendas" of the evangelical movement. Global warming, alternative energies and Americans' privacies being sacrificed for security all do not hold a candle to extinguishing the life of a helpless baby."
But I am not fighting for merely the environment and American's privacys. Give me a little credit huh. There are other moral issues at stake here. And I'm sorry but how do you weigh one against the other? Well many say, you included, the life of the unborn trumps all b/c they have no voice. True they don't and someone has to speak for them. But who will speak for the nearly 100,000 Iraqi civilians who have died in this war or the 4197 US Military men and women killed in battle? We're talking lives here. People with families. Men, women, and innocent children dead and for what? A preemptive war we entered into on false pretenses. Who will answer to that? Now we are spending $10 billion a month there while contractors are making a killing on bogus expenses they get redeemed by the government for. Over 12% of our country is considered poor- that's 35 million people many of whom cannot afford decent living arrangements and food to feed their families. These are people with no voice. In the meantime oil companies and big business are raking in hundreds of millions of dollars that the lower classes will never see. Continued tax breaks for the rich will only silence these people even more and continue shrinking the middle class. Big business pushes out smaller businesses people have worked a better part of their lives to build and oh ok they provide more jobs for the area. But alot of these places like Walmart for one exploits their workers by paying them a measly salary too low to even afford the health care they charge an arm and a leg for. They charge the lowest prices because of tax subsisdies they get so the public is paying in their taxes for these companies to be able to charge low prices. Not to mention all of the over seas jobs many companies contract out and recieve tax breaks for. Why do they do it? CHEAP LABOR. Do you know how many people are exploited, mistreated, and even abused in these factories for mere change they make per day? Many of them are children- innocent children with no voice. These are factories who sell products to American companies like Walmart and hundreds of others who pay cheap labor to make an extra buck.
I could go on. I'm not talking about "let's save the trees" and "we all want to put an extra buck in our pocket". There are atrocities, social injustices, corruption and abuse of power happening here in the US and over seas as a result of this us. Look I believe Jesus would have turned over the tables left and right if he were here today to witness the corruption and exploitation of those with no voice or power by the wealthy and powerful - namely many in our current administration and MANY who worked on McCain's campaign or have been long time associations/lobbyists for McCain and/or the Republican Administration. And speaking of abuse of power- Cheney desiced he's going to reinterpret the Constitution and what powers it gives to the VP and Palin agrees with Cheney's interpretation. This is outrageous. I don't want anyone in power who would abuse their priveleges/powers and take away the rights and freedoms we are all guarenteed in the Constitution.
My values are rooted in my faith and what I believe is important according to what I have learned via the Bible and my own relationship with God; What I have learned it means to be a Christian - a follower of Christ and His ways and teachings. Social justice is God's agenda too. Jesus always looked to protect the weak- ALL of them, not just one particular group and often times it was from the law makers who abused their powers!
"Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you". James 1:27 NLT
Not a small order indeed and not insignificant in the eyes of God. So I say continue to fight this fight Steve. It is an important one. And I will always be passionate about it too and looking for the solution as well but I also have other fights before me that call me to action and I will focus on them too because that is what I believe God has put on my heart. A balance has to exist Steve. We cannot lose sight of the bigger picture. There are many wars to be fought and many warriors chosen to fight various ones. None are more or less significant if they are what God has asked us to do.
EYE FULL!!!!!! I know. Hope you can hear me. You don't have to agree but at least hear.
Dan's Response (to Steve)
Bro, you got your work cut out for you. These two are hardcore. Good thing I'm neutral (ok, not really, I listen to whatever Jen says)
Discuss amongst yourselves...
